Mindfulness Skill 2: Non-Judgmental Awareness

TRANSCRIPT

Interviewer:

Patrick, what are we going to be looking at this week?

Patrick:

So I'm logged on yet today it's neutrality or non-judgmental awareness, which is a pretty foundational part of mindfulness.

Interviewer:

And mindfulness is what we've been we're planning on focusing on for the next few weeks. Our last discussion was on present-moment awareness, which is, which was also a facet of mindfulness. And each week, we're going to be looking at a different mindfulness technique. So in the scope of neutrality, what do we mean by that? When we're talking about it in the scope of mindfulness?

Patrick:

Yeah, sure. So neutrality is the ability to be able to step back, you could almost say and see our thoughts, feelings, and sensations, as passing, sometimes they call it a passing mental event versus a real one. And the key is, is the capacity to be able to look objectively at what's happening. And then to be able to break down our experience into those, those three parts that you know, the physical reactions, the feelings we have, and the thoughts that we have. But then the element to it that kind of makes it different is that just watching is, is to have what they call neutral, nonjudgmental awareness around it versus the typical reaction is to engage with all of that stuff.

And if happens to be a negative thought, then we kind of engage with it. As soon as we are engaged with a negative thought thought gets fruit is, is negative emotion. So this neutrality thing is the ability to be able to just watch that neutrally, without judging it, versus engaging with it.

Interviewer:

And it seems that you're almost trying to, we're in the process of being neutral in the scope of your thoughts, you're almost trying to be a little bit critical of them in a way, but without the emotion that's attached to that, if that makes sense. You want to be able to dissect them in a way that's, that's not going to spur you in the direction of being highly emotive about that. Yeah. And so in that way, like, what, what exactly is the purpose of it? Or why is it why is it beneficial in the scope of mindfulness?

Patrick: 

Well, I'd say mainly, it enables you to be able to, to not treat thoughts and feelings as, you know, absolute truths, or realities, but they're, they're more just the things that often just randomly happen inside our head. And they might even be sort of inherited thoughts that, you know, people have told us this, or we've had that habit for years. And, you know, I guess the nonjudgmental element just enables us to be able to see, see them as they come up versus, you know, almost reacting knee-jerk reaction to them as, oh, that must be true. Well, that must be true.

And therefore, we react to it. So for example, I guess you could almost say instead of feeling or having this, you know, the feeling and then the thought comes, you know, I'm angry, the neutral nonjudgmental awareness, might be able to almost say, you know, there is anger, which might be okay is like, you know, there is an angry reaction that might happen. But doesn't mean I'm, I'm angry as I'm like, I don't need to engage with it, or even act on it.

And as soon as we have that ability, to not judge what's coming up, the power of it is that we've now got a choice we about what we do with it.

Interviewer:

I think it's like that, that word that cropped up several times in your responses, judge and you know, being judgmental, and I suppose that judgment is rooted in your values. And once those are challenged, or manipulated in some way, that's where emotion comes about. And I suppose it's the thing that's sort of becoming difficult, or it's something that I'm sort of challenging myself to look at is where if you're removing the emotion from your assessment of, of yourself, what the difference would then be between retaining neutrality and being simply ambivalent. Can you talk a little bit about what that distinction is?

Patrick: 

Yeah, look, that's a good one. It's a trap for young players, for people to think that neutral, nonjudgmental awareness means I don't care. It's not, it's not that bit of, of course, that can be a temptation to go that direction. So that's the first thing I would highlight is that neutral, nonjudgmental awareness in mindfulness anyway, doesn't mean nonengagement. If anything, it means choice. Because what it does is it it's about you finding a center to build a watch from and then you know, then in that watching, you can see the thoughts or the feelings or the sensations that are happening and, versus sort of being so swept up and caught up, that I might now act. In being able to find that center to watch from you've now got freedom to be able to act or not, if required.

I think the other elements are that is, there is what we call almost like a loving kindness wall and mindfulness, which is kind of probably the the upgrade of this work is that if it's a difficult situation, and it's, but it's just for you, it's difficult only for you, it's an opportunity for you to practice mindfulness or to practice the ability to watch the feelings that come up when someone's saying something or doing. But if it's difficult, if the situation is difficult for others, it's this is not an opportunity for you to practice mindfulness, this is an opportunity for you to act.

So I think there's almost a difference there is that when we can step back, and choose, we can go off to do for me, I could probably handle that. And I can observe and work on my reactions. But if it's difficult for the other person, I've now got that choice of that freedom to be able to watch. And I have some responsibility out of care for others to act. So the choice gives you a lot more room to be able to almost say to act skillfully. In this case, if it's to help someone else, neutrality can make you more engaged because you're choosing to help someone else.

Interviewer:

 Well, we've been talking about mental neutrality, and you know that as a mindfulness technique, what exactly is the technique for developing mental neutrality?

Patrick:

Yeah, well, we've got a few options for how we play here. One is in mindfulness, they separate techniques or practices into two, the first of what they call focused attention, where you focus on something or you know, like a single point, you know, like a candle or something and try and not have distractions, keep bringing your attention back to that one. So that's focused attention. And then the other one is what they call open monitoring, which is where you allow whatever might be happening to just happen. And you just observe it, you know, I'm talking about inside of you allow that to happen, thoughts, feelings, and sensations, and that's, you know, open monitoring.

And so, that's one good technique is to just choose the things that are occurring with you, there might be thoughts, feelings, and sensations, and to just choose like a 32nd, or a minute spot, five minutes, whatever, where you just allow the scenery, the mental scenery to come and go, and you just observe it, you don't engage with it. And we call this open monitoring.

And then the second way you can also do that is perhaps to do like a body scan from, you know, head to toe. Often that can be used for relaxation, but you can also use that as an exercise to observe, you know, the changing nature of thoughts and feelings and sensations that occur, especially with the body, the body scan is more or less sensations, one, can you notice that the body sensations just change all the time, they can kind of relax, and then they can become a bit tight. So you can choose anything, but the goal is to be able to just watch the sort of impermanent nature of this phenomenon, as we would call it. In a way that doesn't react to it, essentially.

Interviewer: 

Yeah, I suppose the thing that comes up when we're talking about viewing your emotions, and your feelings, and even in the scope of being in, you know, a state of mental neutrality, you may also have with that, memories that come up, I suppose the thing that stands out to me is the fact that occasionally these emotions can be very hard to treat without judgment, you can feel very overcome with emotion and, you know, similar to what I saw as being something that might need to be overcome when we're doing our present moments, present moment awareness techniques. I do feel like asking, you know, is there a way that you would suggest coping with a negative feeling, and that may arise by way of this technique? Or, you know, something that feels instinctive, and, but ultimately negative? Like, have you got any advice about remaining objective during the body scan?

Patrick:

Sure, yeah. Well, I mean, your question actually, is being quite highlighted in the research as well is that, you know, when people do the mindfulness things, typically it's associated with relaxing and whatever else. Research has also found that it can bring up stuff and the mechanism is to why is because when we're doing these kinds of methods of mindfulness and stopping, sometimes, you know, it highlights that we are, we're not stopping, you know, like we're almost, you know, avoiding things. And when we do stop, things do come up. So it presents us a little bit with a choice here and that favorite fridge magnet, you know, which is the complete opposite of mindfulness is I've been so much happier since I'm in denial.

And he's got someone eating, eating a chocolate cake or something. And that is such a contrast to what mindfulness is about, which is more likely To what we'd call the hero's journey where you kind of enter the cave and you face the dragon. So at times, when you just sit down and just observe and whatever else that you know, there are no dragons, it just, you know, the heart rate quietens and the body relaxes, and it can just be nice. But, you know, what you've highlighted is that sometimes things can come up.

And, you know, Freud had this, you know, phrase, we said, the latent becomes manifest, you know, what's underneath, becomes, comes out on top. But it is that, oh, we always call that free therapy, you know, it's an opportunity to get to something that would be missing. And to, but we need to have good tools with it, and to be able to watch and allow to be able to let that occur.

And this is where the neutral nonjudgmental awareness is so critical, it's the ability to be able to just not do that engagement that typically is, you know, what we're doing, and mindfulness exercises can be like, almost like a mindfulness gym session, you know, where it's like, normally in life, we're just doing our thing, but this is like fitness training, where we go, alright, so when something comes up, my job right now for this one minute or five minutes, is, you know, this set, if you like, is to be able to watch it, let it pass, let it move through. You know, sometimes it can transform it, because we haven't run from it, or we haven't pushed it under. And it can go Oh, wow, that's all it was came in. 

Interviewer: 

That's an optimistic way to frame it, I suppose, as well, for folks that are looking at doing this technique and worrying potentially, that it might give rise to something that would, that would be negatively impactful to them.

Patrick: 

Yeah, and I mean, when you're optimistic it's it is. And I think probably, if we want to kind of go in that middle of realistic, it means that sometimes there'll be nothing. And sometimes there might be something that might not just go immediately. But if we apply, employ the methods, you know, that we're sort of building here, present moment, awareness, staying in the present, being neutral, not judging and engaging, that over time, these things do move through. Because, you know, emotions don't have much stamina, and they'll stay for a while. But if we don't engage with them and stir them up, then there's an opportunity for them to have their day be felt, and then move through that might return, but then we can apply to employ that same tool.

And over time, the level of mastery you can get is extraordinary. It's like nothing, nothing to be scared of. Yeah. But you know, that does take training, but it's definitely what's possible.

Interviewer: 

Yeah. And I think it sort of links back to stuff that you've mentioned in the past of treating these exercises and reflections on our mental health as being akin to a physical exercise and the idea of, you know if you're inclined to benefit yourself physically, why not do so mentally as well?

Patrick: 

Yeah, yep. For sure. Yeah. Makes makes perfect sense to me. Yeah.

Interviewer: 

Absolutely. And thanks for getting in touch with us again this week, Patrick to share your information with us. I hope to speak to you again next week.

Patrick:

Yep, that sounds good.

Interviewer:

Excellent. Take care.